Procinctu, North of Menifee, Combat Company?

There's an interesting comment published in The Californian today about a company called Procinctu, located in Romoland, just north-east of the Menifee boundary...

Ray Lutz helped oust Blackwater-West from Potrero in San Diego. At the Citizens for Democracy meeting, he will address the private military companies and explain his established citizens oversight panels program that encourages residents to oversee their governing boards, thus creating a more open, transparent government.
The comment is from Ann Weston, who compares Procinctu with Blackwater USA, arguing that private companies have no business in cashing in on war.

Procinctu trains people for combat, which may include soldiers, but also law enforcement and security personnel. The feeling I'm getting from Weston's comment is that companies like Procinctu are bad.

Privatization of war has been around for centuries. Most of the soldiers that George Washington commanded under the American Revolution were mercenaries and private militias, that fought for money. All the ships, tanks, guns, airplanes, bombs, and what have you, that our military uses, was all manufactured by private companies. It stands to make sense, that private companies would also provide specialized training.

It was also war that brought the USA out of the Great Depression.

And it's also war companies that created much of technologies we have today.

You can read Weston's comment here...

http://www.nctimes.com/..../3646c2ccb882574ff006c07a3.txt

The Press Enterprise published a background on Procinctu here...

http://www.pe.com/..../Local_D_center20.4051129.html

Though I think for Weston, the situation may resolve itself with Obama pledging to pull troops out of Iraq, or at least that's what he said during the campaign. Procinctu may also find itself out of business anyways, with governments finding themselves with revenue shortages.




60 Comments:

  1. I don't know much about either of these companies but to think that mercenaries aren't necessary to a free society is naive. War is hell, and if there are professionals, many of whom are former military personnel, who have the experience and desire to hire themselves out for special forces, then isn't that a good thing? I believe Blackwater has contracts from the Department of Defense in Iraq as senior consults. If this can help the cause and save US soldiers then bravo.
    The article says that the mercenaries "depend on the adversity of war and conflict to survive", I assume she means as a business. I venture to say that they aren't the ones causing or promoting the war. They are filling a very real need. The PE piece quotes Choate as fulfilling a growing demand for such training."
    I would imagine besides war, they probably also have corporate contracts for businesses doing business in dangerous places.

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  2. A big part of what Blackwater does is provide security for contractors doing the rebuilding.

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  3. Typical ignorant philosophies. War continues today because people make money off of war and misery. Soilders, war and business shouldn't mix. Iraq is a prime example. A war fought for the monetary gain of a few. Don't give me crap about the wear being fought for the fredom of Iraqi's. It was fought over money and the benefit of a few.
    George Washington used "mercenaries" because that was all that we had. It was by need, not by choice. Blackwater is made up of individuals who have courage, but have no other ability in life than to fight. The problem is, without war, the need for Blackwater and it's kind doesn't exist. So how do they stay around? By promoting the machine of war. Give me a break, private institution has no place in war. War is sadistic and brutal, and unfortunately needed at times. The horror of war doesn't need the explotation of capitalism to contribute to the horror.

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  4. Funny how most wars revolve around religion.

    Get rid of religion...get rid of wars.

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  5. O Christ, someone opened up the religion card. Now we will spend the next 100 posts debating God and religion, Jeff will bless us with bible quotes, and we will all forget about the original topic. Only on this site would anyone look at mercenaries as necessary to a free society. Problem the same people who will quote bible verses and talk about how mercenaries protect our christian nation. Can't wait.

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  6. Did you forget about 9/11? It will happen agin. They are planning the next bomming now. They plan for years. We should have a lot more
    Blackwaters. Let them fight and bring home our military.

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  7. Only problem is that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Blackwater has had "issues" in Iraq. Come on people, intelligent politicians will bring our boys/girls home, not Blackwater. Blackwater makes more money when our soldiers are there.

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  8. Blackwater is a Cheney money pit....And Religion DOES start all wars.
    Time to stop thumpin and get some brains!

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  9. Procinctu & Blackwater & Don Harris - The True Axis of EVIL!! Repent Heathens!

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  10. "Blackwater is a Cheney money pit....And Religion DOES start all wars.
    Time to stop thumpin and get some brains!"


    World War I, Japan's invasion of the Pacific, the American Civil War, The Cold War, the Iraq-Iran War, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, Mexican-American war, the 100 Years War, the Boer War, The Seven Years War, were all political wars.

    Even American Indian tribes attacked each other, and enslaved each other's women and children. No race of humanity is innocent from aggression, and never will be.

    So if war is a reality that the world never ever escape from, should our government provide its own training and manufacture its own machines, or would it be better to let private contractors do that work instead?

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  11. We are fortunate to have a volunteer armed forces. If you were born in Israel you would be required to serve in the military. I think everyone born in the USA should serve in the military. This has nothing to do with this topic. However, if you want to be trained as GI Joe or Jane, then so be it! I would do it if I could afford it. You never know when some (only some) of the training might come in handy.

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  12. I for one am glad that Procinctu is coming to the area. From the PE article this Choate guy is a local. The land has been in his family for a while, he's not going to overdevelop the land and he'll be bringing some jobs to the area. Not to mention the 400+ trainees a year who will be a boost to our economy.

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  13. Ah man, I muttered the name Don Harris and not a squeak! So much for instigation!

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  14. I'm glad to have this company in our area. These companies train our military, law enforcement and various security companies. This is exactly what we need in our area. Just think of how much safer it will be in our area when we have trained personnel.
    I WELCOME THEM TO OUR CITY.

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  15. Sounds like a great company for what they do and the training they provide.
    When can I sign up?

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  16. Maybe they will start training the Civil Security Force that Obama has promised. The Menifee Militia !!! Better buy your gun now before they are all bought up. Sales are up 400%.

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  17. How few of us think this is a scary thing? How thoroughly do these companies conduct background checks on people attending these camps? Scares me. Talk about selling our souls, we just seem to be more and more doing it. IF we can't even trust our privately-hired baggage checkers; HOW can we trust some non-governmental company with defending our country, police force, borders, etc. I'm probably way off base, so can someone relieve my fears?

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  18. You are being a little paranoid. These companies provide a great service to our security services (military and private).

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  19. How thorough of a background check do our service personnel go through?

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  20. I personally do not think that any background check is flawless. Just look at various members of congress, law enforcement and military personnel that we have all seen in the news that have committed crimes.
    Need I say more!

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  21. Okay, I accept that I'm probably paranoid. Thanks for your comments. Privatization of our military IS risky business. Wait for their competing with each other for the contracts.

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  22. Poster of 7:47 p.m.: Right, most background checks are not flawless,such is life...And expensive AND time consuming. What really troubles me is that our new President could never pass one because of his associations. To think our country is now in the hands of one who could never work for our CIA, FBI, or any sensitive government agency; BUT he can sit in the Oval Office? Something out of whack with that. Not to mention his list of 63 questions for his appointees that he could never pass himself. Yep, I know America voted him in....just don't blame me for it.

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  23. I hear you on that last comment. I didn't vote for him either based solely on the fact that his history (that which we know very little) is alarming. I for one am concerned that we will have someone at the top of our government that we know nothing about.

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  24. People should post when they know what they are talking about. Obama could pass any background check easily. If you would stop paying attention to Farce news and their ilk, you would know that Obama has NO CLOSE ASSOCIATIONS with Ayers, or other terrorists or other disqualifying individuals. Rev. Wright said some very incendiary things, not racist, and all of those statements fall under the 1st Amendment. I am sure you have heard of that.McCain's associations with known criminals and past infidelity, would cause him to fail most background checks.
    Obama can be trusted and when America is a strong nation again, you can give thanks to Obama.

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  25. If you know nothing about Obama, then you need to read more. There is soooooo much info out there. The fact you could find nothing, says more about you than Obama.

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  26. OUCH! Get off my toes! I must have stepped on yours, so I'm sorry. NO, he could NOT pass a TOP-SECRET security clearance, I've conducted them enough to know. Let's just see what time will tell about this mysterious man. Obviously, you voted for him; obviously, I did not. 'NUFF said for now.

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  27. For more information on Procinctu, google: Procinctu, Homeland CA, Use the website Ray Lutz has: www.copswiki.org, Google: Private Armies vs U.S. Military, Google: mercenary armies, Google: Blackwater USA. Read Jeremy Scahill's book, Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army, the paperback version, 2008. PS. Everything that was printed in that article was in research, with all the sources documented and sent to the Californian. This way they could verify each statement made. If you want the sources I will put then in another comment. AW

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  28. My particular concern over the development of the tactical training center in Romoland is the proximity to residences and schools in the area. This location is not appropriate as it constitutes an "attractive nuisance" to young people and teenagers that live within walking distance. This could be very hazardous to the children, not to mention the noise level disturbing animals and horses nearby. The location also jeopaardizes the Romoland School District's development plans for the Trailmark Elementary School because it would not meet the requirements for the necessary buffer zone.

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  29. The word "mercenary army" is not used lightly. In 2002 private military companies were called mercenary armies.
    At that time, a man named Tim Spicer in Britain, had a mercenary army called Sandline. The people in Britain were up-in-arms because this firm was "used by warring factions" in Sierra Leone and Papua, New Guinea. To mollify the citizenry, he closed Sandline, reopened another firm, called it AEGIS. Instead of calling it a mercenary army, he renamed it as a "private military company, and that's what they're called today(Jeremy Scahill pg 223). So Mercenary Armies equal "Private Military Companies.
    Mercenary companies are Guns For Hire." They work for the highest bidder, for dollars. They don't care who or for what reason they are at war. It's the money! Last, they are private, so you don't know what these companies are doing. With Procinctu, the Planning Commission and Board of Supervisors set it up so no one needs to revisit the site on Briggs Road, until the year 2027 (that's in public records).We don't know what they will do, what weapons they will have ( they didn't feel comfortable in listing the types of weapons they would have, only small arms they mentioned). You don't want a private army!

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  30. Sounds like a great company to work for. I'll put in an application. Income is income. Revenue is revenue

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  31. It is amazing the lies people will tell when they can hide behind a blog. Let me lay it out to you people. For the last twenty years, I have worked as a liason between Boeing and the Federal government as it relates to the background checks for employees/potential employees working in our Seal Beach location. Obama would have passed a background check for top secret clearance. Yes there would have been a deeper investigation into some aspects of his life, but that is normal for most employees. The reason the investigators are professionals is because they can determine a questionable incident/relationship versus a nonviolating incident. Obama would have passed, McCain, with his relationship with convicted felons, in particular, felons who were convicted of federal crimes, he would have failed. There you go, you may not like it but, people need to face the facts.

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  32. Well you on your pompous throne, "laying it out to 'YOU' people"; you don't know as much as you would like one to think. Your superior (so you seem to imply) position as "liaison" between government and a private contractor does NOT give you true insight into the government and background checks. You have no inkling of what inspecting agents do for background checks; fair enough since you have never actually performed one. BUT...Obama would never clear one...plain and simple. Do you know the difference between background checks for what position; i.e. Non-Sensitive, Critical Non-Sensitive, etc.etc. all the way up to Secret and TOP Secret. This has no reflection on your voting for him; its fact. Clearance is in proportion to the position and trust involved. The more trust into Government secrecy, the more intense the clearance check. Back to the intended article, what do you think of the training camp so close?

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  33. Privatization of our military, police services and prisonsthreatens our democracy. Outsourcing of political decisions, security, and other significant functions that were once inherently the government's responsibility has stripped the power from the people and given it to companies and corporations such as Blackwater and Halliburton. This is a dangerous trend-smacks of Hitler's SS!

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  34. How does private military threaten our democracy? Read for Jefferson's sake man! Come on. This company is no different than those that mfg bombs or computers or planes or attack dogs or razor wire or providing a service like brinks or the secret service. I sure wouldn't want to work in a foreign company building a dam or pipeline or school or church without private security.

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  35. Maybe that security is needed if you're in a country where you were not invited to be and are there as occupiers!

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  36. Good lord, people need to relax. As for the guy who is sure that Obama wouldn't pass a background check. Give me a break, you are the pompous one not the other respondent. You are a sore loser and fearful of the fact that your whole political ideolgy has been proven to be a joke the last eight years. Granted it may have been Bush and his ilk that have ruined the Republican party, but the world is changing and Americans need to change with it. Most of the civilized world look at war as an atrocity that should be a rarity and under drastic and severe circumstances. Private business and capitalism have no place in war. Sometimes America acts like the third world extremist monsters we claim to despise. Maybe Obama wouldn't pass. Neither would McCain, Bush, Reagan, etc...Grow up you are arguing a point that doesn't matter. The world will change on January 20th whether you are ready or not. You don't like Obama, so what, he will be your President for the next eight years. If having Obama as presidcent scares you, then you and your militia/security buddies can move into the backwoods, collect all your guns, and plan all the future wars that will make you feel better about being a real "American."

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  37. Rick, you need to get a life and join the rest of us in reality.

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  38. Obama's cabinet has shown just how much change there will be.

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  39. I think anonymous needs to wake up. Your "reality" is what put us into this harrowing financial and international situation. The sooner your "reality" fades away,the better for our country.

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  40. My reality would have zero unemployment and no illegal aliens. Guess my reality and your reality are slightly different.

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  41. Considering you are apparently Republican, your "reality" is based on imagination. The last eight years have seen unemployment rise at record levels, and immigration, illegal especially, was a resource for "jobs" for the corporate world. Wanting to rid our country of unemployment is noble, but you can't vote for individuals who belong to a party that have proven over the last 20 years to be job killers. With the individuals you support, your "reality" will continue to be a dream.

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  42. I'm neither republican or democrat. Both those parties suck, period. Where is Ross Perot when we need him the most?

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  43. Black water is our mercenary army in Iraq. They don't need to follow the rules our soldiers do and make 4 times as much. Over 50,000 American Mercenaries are in Iraq. Here is a video on them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALYLnj1Cb8U&feature=related

    They will eventually be patrolling Menifee streets, like they did New Orleans when Martial Law was called for- right before they take American's to FEMA concentration camps (google FEMA camps if you don't beleive me)..

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  44. Saying that "They" will be patrolling our streets in Menifee is being absolutely paranoid and ridiculous. You are just trying to instigate and create problems.

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  45. It's not this group you want to worry about. Our financial crisis is an economy based on greedy banks and outrageous credit profits and government intervention. They should both leave the marketplace. Check your history..anything the govt can do better than the private sector?

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  46. The paramilitary or private armies are illegal as stated in CA Penal Code Section 11460. It says "paramilitary organizaton" means an organization which is not an agency of the US govt. or of the State of CA... and which engages in guerrilla warfare or sabotage... Punishment: jailtime one year or $1,000 or both. Now if I am reading the law correctly, then the Riverside County Board of Supervisors & Riverside Planning Dept passed a project that is illegal. If that is right, tell that to the Menifee City Council and they can pass that info to the RCBOS's as one of the Menifee Board works for one of the supervisors. Is that called "conflict of interest?"
    If that is "conflict of interest" that person could be influencing other Menifee Councilmen on decision-making.
    Matter of fact, that will be presented to Menifee Council at their next meeting.

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  47. we already have street patrols its
    called code enforcement blackwater
    would be an improvement.
    r-land

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  48. How can Barack help to rebuild America? Barack can, in a timely manner, close the illegal mercenary armies like Blackwater USA, Procintu, Blackwater, and other private firms which are guns for hire. Then those billions of dollars of taxpayer money can be be transfered into Barack Obama's "economic recovery plan" in the USA. ### As it is,each bomb dropped in countries that we have invaded and occupied leaves innocent people dead and bombed- out neighborhoods. Who benefits? War profiteers like Haliburton hired to rebuild Iraq, supposedly.
    The more drummed up wars, the more profiting.### Stop the bombs, put that money to better use by "rebuilding" our infrastructure, the schools, bridges, roads. Use those dollars for alternative energy and jobs at home.###So close up these illegal, paramilitary companies and rebuild America instead.

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  49. KEEP IN MIND I SUPPORT THE RIVERSIDE COUNTY SHERRIFS DEPARTMENT, I SUPPORT MOST POLICE AGENCY'S AND I DEFINATELY SUPPORT THE MENIFEE COMMUNITY HOWEVER WE HAVE JUST GOTTEN A NEW POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND I AM DISPLEASED WITH THEIR SERVICE ; THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT. You probably wont think this is a big deal, but it is to me, I've lived in menifee for 14 years.

    It was about 1:00am, I was on my way home from a friends house in Canyon Lake. I was heading east on Newport Road, when I noticed a car was behind me. I was enjoying a cigarette, when I noticed the headlights behind me turned completely off then back on. I thought somebody was messing with me, so I was on my senses.

    As the car got closer to me, I noticed they where Crown vic headlights, and I knew immediately what it might be. I knew there was a possibility of being pulled over. I was approaching Murrieta rd, and went to make a right turn, not realizing it was a closed lane with construction. They had left the lane open, but they only had a series of dividers, and at night, it's hard to tell.

    I knew he was definately going to pull me over now, seeing that I drove in a closed lane. Sure enough, as I made my right turn to head home, he pulls me over. I was tired, wanted to go home and just sleep, and didn't have time for this. Now keep in mind, my vehicle has no insurance, and no registration. It's not that I dont want insurance, I had a car recently break down on me, and I havn't switched it over to my other car, and I have spent money on trying to fix my own car and get it smogged, but it has failed a few times, so due to economical problems I havn't had a chance to get it smogged and registerd, regardless, I have already been written up by the CHP, and I am scheduled for court on my vehicle issues. Now.. THAT ASIDE.. Back to the incident, the officer comes up to my window.

    "Have you been drinking tonight?"

    "No" I laugh.

    I had already received a ticket for those things mentioned, so I immediately showed the officer my ticket.

    "I had already been written up for these things, just letting you know beforehand, the insurance, the registration, I have a court date on the 30th."

    He looks the ticket over, and hands it back to me.

    "Okay well that's not why I pulled you over, I pulled you over because you had an un-lit license plate."

    I nodded.

    "Yeah, I knew you where going to pull me over." I proceeded to explain to him I saw him flash his headlights, knew it was a cop car, and WHY I went into the turn lane, ect.

    "Let me see your license"

    I hand him my license.

    "How long have you lived in Menifee?"

    "15 years" I reply.

    "If you had lived here for 15 years, then you would fucking know that there was construction going on, and you wouldn't have fucking turned in that lane like a DUMBASS!"

    Now this is almost word for word, now why the officer was getting aggressive, I've NO idea.

    Alright. Now at this point, I had a choice. I could back-talk the officer, or just listen. I decided to listen. I can't deal with people cussing and yelling at me for no appearant reason, so I got uncomfortable. I was going to raise my voice, but thought it would do no good, so I just listened. I tend to fidget when people cuss or yell at me, it helps me releive the tension. I slowly went to adjust my pant leg and then the officer yells.

    "Keep your hands on the fucking wheel! Don't ever move when an officer is talking to you, unless you want a GUN to your head!

    I said "OKay officer" I grabbed the wheel, and was shaking my head, grinning to myself. Not that I was trying to be a smart ass, but in disbeleif at how I was being treated. I just had my head down, and kept to myself. I guess I wasn't maintaining that powerless, fearful face that most people get when they are pulled over.

    "Are you menifee police?" I ask.

    "Yes."

    "Okay, then you're new." I say, and look away. I had zero respect for the guy. Not because I don't respect police officers, I am actually PRO-police, I have applied for the Riverside county sherrifs department myself, but this one was out of line.

    I took my hands off the wheel to adjust my jacket zipper (It's 54 degrees outside) and the officer snaps again.

    "KEEP YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL!" He looks over my license a little more.

    He hands my license back.

    "Now get that plate fixed."

    I look up at him, to try and get his name badge, but I couldn't see it. I didn't want to ask for it either. I should have, but I didn't respec the asshole.

    "Go home."

    I look back up at him, and try to see if I Can see his badge name again, couldn't see it, his flaghlight was blocking it, so I just looked at his face, he was about 24-27, had prescription glasses on.

    Now correct me if I am wrong, is insulting and aggressive verbal abuse a pre-requisite in academy training? I am willing to sympathize, say, in a gun battle, physical altercation... but a fucking un-lite license plate? Did I deserve the verbal beating? Anyway, you tell me.

    And to give you an idea of who I am, I try to be a gentlemen, I try not to cuss TOO much, I try to respect my fellow man as much as I can, but this was just un-acceptable, especially for my community.

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  50. To the LAWBREAKER, who has money for cigareetes, but not for registration and insurance....

    You should have had you damn car impounded you idiot!

    You are an irresponsible citizen of Menifee; do us all a favor and move.

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  51. "Now keep in mind, my vehicle has no insurance, and no registration. It's not that I dont want insurance, I had a car recently break down on me, and I havn't switched it over to my other car, and I have spent money on trying to fix my own car and get it smogged, but it has failed a few times, so due to economical problems I havn't had a chance to get it smogged and registerd"

    While there is no reason to cuss you out for driving in a closed lane or having a unlit license plate, he should have had your car impounded for driving without insurance. If you cannot afford insurance or registration due to economic reasons.........then you should not drive. It is people driving without insurance and then having an accident that causes all of us to have higher insurance cost.

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  52. The uninsured driver, is a DORK!

    You got a "free pass" from the Deputy; yet you are complaining because he used ( I seriously doubt) foul language?!

    Would you feel better if he was "polite", impounded your car, and had you walk home that night?

    You must be a "momma's boy"!

    Grow up, get your act together; GET INSURANCE, and be responsible!!

    I'm actually pissed off at the Deputy. Drivers like you, who choose not to get insurance are the reason why responsible drivers pay such high premiums.

    Do us all a favor, and ride you bike, or just stay put in your mommy's house. When you get insurance, then drive!

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  53. Driver:

    Is this a joke??

    1. Your car is unregistered,
    2. Your car failed smog,
    3. You don't have insurance,
    4. You get cited for the above infractions and continue to drive without correcting,
    4. You don't drive very well (drive in closed lane),
    5. Can't seem to follow simple directions from authority,
    6. You spend your time "hanging out" when you should be looking for a job to avoid your "econonmic problems".

    The question for you is:

    Are you mad at the Deputy for calling you a "DUMBASS", or are you made because you are a "DUMBASS"?

    UNTIL YOU CORRECT YOUR INFRACTIONS, AND ESPECIALLY THE INSURANCE, STAY OFF THE ROADS!!

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  54. "have applied for the Riverside county sherrifs department myself"

    And we wonder why he was not hired!

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  55. I'm just trying to figure out if this is all just a sick made-up-story because he has nothing better to do, or if its his ignorance and wanting pity. Either way, this guy is an insult to intelligence. He criticizes language he 'says' the officer used and then continues to sling his nastiness with the same words he uses himself. Either way, maybe the officer was adept in sizing him up and knew this was the only way he could talk so the driver could understand. My gut tells me this may be a made up story to get responses. My gut response (from his using paragraph separations, etc) he's just feeding us a carp he found when he was feeding on the bottom to see what we do with it.

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  56. So driver....

    You got other opinions. Didn't turn out too well did it?

    You gonna do the right thing and park that car in the garage until you become responsible and correct your infractions?

    Or are you going to continue to break the law and play the victim?

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  57. Are there any other menifee discussion sites? This one is never updated anymore.

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  58. I heard Steve was riding his bike and was hit by an idiot who was driving an unregisterd, polluting car with no insurance while traveling in a closed lane.

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  59. Most of you people do not know what you are talking about. Right now they are giving great training to people that are going over seas. I have been to the training myself. I am glad it is around. It is definitly not the same as blackwater. I felt much more comfortable with being able to shoot afterward. They will be able to consolidate training in one place. Instead of units going all over for it so the government will save money.

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  60. Yea for both compaines when can I sign up. Mercenaries are better the 18 year old kids.

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