MSJC Police Costs $1 Million Last Year

Ann Motte, one of the elected College Board of Trustees with Mt San Jacinto College, posted the cost of the MSJC Police for this past fiscal...

Ann Motte, one of the elected College Board of Trustees with Mt San Jacinto College, posted the cost of the MSJC Police for this past fiscal year (July 2007 to July 2008) on her blog...

http://annmotte.com/2008/07/15/fyipd-budgetactual-0708/

She also posted it as a comment on this blog, and you can read the comments of others in response...

http://www.menifee247.com/2008/07/ msjc-teacher-speaks-out-about-campus.htm#c4758259415227372454

Here's what she said...
The requested information for the 07/08 PD Budget/Actual was received as a two page document in my mailbox over the weekend.

The PD budget for this period inclusive (salary, benefits, OT, equipment, contracts, uniforms, fuel, office, conference, telephone, maintenance/repairs, recruitment, xerox leases, misc.) was $1,072,831.31.

The actual expense for 07/01/07 through 07/08/08 was $920,082.74 with $723,094 for salaries/benefits.

The department consists of 7 safety officers, 7 police officers, 1 clerk, 1 secretary, 5 student workers, and 2 substitutes.

The MSJC PD patrols approximately 150 total acres in owned campus properties or about 1/4 square mile inclusive. One square mile = 640 acres.
I'm not an expert on what adequate law enforcement should cost per square mile (or in this case 1/4 mile). Perhaps someone else can chime in on that.

But it seems like a campus security (not a police department), that stays on campus, would be more cost effective. They wouldn't have to drive patrol cars. The money saved, could be used to hire more teachers and offer new courses.

Let the new city deal with policing the neighborhood.

More depressing, is that based on Ann's comments, it sounds like the political climate of MSJC is such that no other trustee, or college administration, seems willing to question this, or even touch it.

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  1. You really need to get over yourself. The area is growing and the police play in integral part in helping the surrounding community. Just the other day I saw them helping a man that had been hit by a vehicle on Newport Road over by lindenberger. Do you not want them to do this? How much money do they bring in through tickets? How many instances of problems have there been on the growing Menifee MSJC Campus? I know as an employeee of the college when I needed their help because a student had a knife on campus they were there taking care of the problem immediately! Would you have like the student body to wait a half hour till the sheriff showed up and have somebody stabbed? Get off your damn soapbox and pull your head out of where the sun don't shine. You and Anne don't like it tell her to step down in protest (make way for somebody who actually wants to do something right with the college instead of her own agenda) and you don't go over there and make sure those cops don't show up to your house if you need them. I am so sick of everybody complaining about the police, they are there to do a job and they do a fine job of it, they protect the college and surrounding community.

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  2. The cost of the MSJC Police is sooo worth it!!

    If you counted the per capita student and worker population on campus rather than the size of the land area it makes total sense. There are thousands of extra people coming and going throughout Menifee because of the College. They come from all over So Cal because students can grab classes at MSJC when not available at their local community college.

    My husband is a Probation Officer and the MSJC Police arrested one of the sex offenders he supervises on the campus. He was really impressed with the professionalism and quick action. If they were just security officers would they still have access to the police data bases when they pull someone over..would they have known the sex offender was in probation violation? I don't think so.

    Menifee is becoming a hub for the area and as such has all kinds of crime happening. The college is not an island, but part of the community. We are lucky that MSJC has a police force as we only have the sheriff to patrol our area.

    Perhaps you should compare with other community colleges policing costs before whining.

    This is a link to Police at Saddleback Community College in OC.

    http://www.saddleback.edu/csafe/

    Here's a link to list of all the community colleges. Perhaps you and Ann could do a comprehensive review to compare what other colleges are paying for their campus police. Instead of attacking the fine police officers at MSJC!!

    http://www.cccco.edu/CommunityColleges/CommunityCollegeListings/CollegeListingsAlphabetical/tabid/643/Default.aspx

    The main CC link is:

    http://www.cccco.edu/Home/tabid/189/Default.aspx

    We are getting a real DEAL.

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  3. FYI - Riverside Community College has 33 sworn officers, inluding a Gang unit, Chaffey College has 20 officers. Palomar College has a Police Academy in addition to their Campus Police department.

    MSCJ has how many officers? What's the ratio of student and faculity to officers?

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  4. What am I missing here? Are you, Steve, and this blogger, complaining about having extra law enforcement in our area??!! You must be kidding -- we'll take all we can get.

    Did you or this blogger receive a traffic ticket or something from these guys, so now you don't like to have these extra law enforcement officers around?

    It's my understanding that as of a year ago, the RSO had 1 officer to cover 42.5 square miles in our area. Clearly, that is not enough and any supplemental help we can get is much appreciated by law-abiding citizens.

    Thank you MSJC and thank you MSJC PD. We appreciate having you around.

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  5. Why should MSJC divert educational resources to protect the "surrounding community"? Nobody has yet explained why the students are safer because the officers are off campus. What happens to response time when the officers are miles away?

    And if you are going to compare Community College PDs, be sure to include the ones that have no PD.

    Why cant they just pay for a sherrif to be on campus, or an officer from the new Menifee PD?

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  6. Nobody would complain about having extra police, no more than somebody complaining about extra class sections. RSO would never pay for an extra teacher, because it would dilute their mission and the citizens would object. Why is general law enforcement off campus the mission of the College, a College that is underserving a rapidily growing population?

    MSJC ranks 69 out of 71 districts in participation rates. That's the fall enrollment divided by the adult population of the district.

    That's a real problem, that deserves an emergency response. A review of programs and services at MSJC is needed because they are failing the most important metric there is for serving students.

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  7. It is evident the MSJC officers are posting. What people are complaining about is the fact that $1 million dollars a year is being wasted. We have out children going to school in modular buildings and do not have enough full time faculty. Instructors come and go at MSJC. This is why I have my daughter drive to Palomar. We can cut this cost by 2/3's if the police department was abolished and security replaced it.

    In addition, the PD at the college is over stepping their bounds. The are CAMPUS police! Stay on campus! Lock doors, make sure cars do not get broken into, deter drug activity ON CAMPUS!

    This crew is like the bad news bears of law enforcement. They are obviously getting their direction from the top, the Chief of police. If the Chief is directing his or her people to venture so far away from the campus maybe the Chief needs to be replaced and get someone in their that is more concerned with the CAMPUS!

    MSJC YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE OF MENIFEE! Start acting like the CAMPUS police! THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE! CAMPUS POLICE.

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  8. $1 million is cheap relative to a potential lawsuit for not adequately protecting the students and surrounding community. The community pays for this "community" college. I think it's great that they have stepped in to help us out with our community's desperate need for law enforcement.

    There are over 20 people involved in this organization. The fact they can do this for around $1 million is pretty good.

    I for one say, "Thanks MSJPD!" I appreciate the service you are providing our community.

    This topic is old and frankly was never that fresh. Can we leave it alone?

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  9. No, it should not be left alone. A cost comparision study should be done. The ditrict should invetigate how much the the county would charge to provide deputies on campus. I would bet it would be much cheaper.

    If liability is going to be brought up think of the liability the district will have when one of these officers gets involved in a shooting or something. As one poster stated earlier, the college PD is full of re-tread officers or rejects. Not exactly the best decision makers.

    Let the costs speak for themselves. If the county is cheaper this option should be investigated.

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  10. I am glad that the MSJC police department polices the surrounding community. Many students and people from surrounding communities come to Menifee because of the college. This outsider traffic is often problematic, and the cost of these extra students/drivers in the area should not be shouldered by the residents of Menifee. I appreciate the college shouldering this financial burden that it creates by bringing in outside traffic. It is such a temptation for students late to class to speed past Bell Mountain Middle School, creating unsafe road conditions for the younger Menifee students who walk to school. Antelope Road also gets its share of speeding students. -Just a side note, I received a ticket recently for speeding on Antelope, while going to pick up a sick child from school. I didn't realize I was speeding; it is easy to do when you are in a hurry. I thanked the officer, because I knew that I deserved it. Just knowing the cops are out there is a big incentive for me to slow down. Lets keep the MSJC police department intact.
    Diane Draper

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  11. $1,000,000 Not bad, what is bad was giving the past president $450,000 for not working there anymore. That was a waste and part of Ann's watch. But that's OK when you have a bunch of kool aid drinkers on the board.

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  12. Ann voted against the buy-out. Get your facts straight and try to stay on topic. You must have a very short attention span.

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  13. It's interesting that Steve mentioned patrol cars in the original post. Included in the PD expenditures is $33,597.26 for a new Charger and $55,907.77 for the chief's new Tahoe. Do the vehicles justify off campus patrols or do off campus patrols justify the vehicles?

    After we are tortured by the circular logic perhaps the PD can explain why the students are safer when their off campus.

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  14. "Why should MSJC divert educational resources to protect the surrounding community?"

    This person hit the nail on the head.

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  15. Dear Anonymous Cowards,

    Clearly Menifee has a need for adequate policing. As a new and growing city, it is important to curtail illegal activity in our community. Crime breeds crime, and nobody will argue that we do not want gangs, drug trafficking, vandalism, domestic violence, rape, or murder in our community. As a city, Menifee should surely address these issues.

    The problem lies with the misappropriation of educational funds for the cause of employing LEOs in the MSJC Police Dept. Like any sworn officer in the state, their authority is valid wherever its use is required. However, using the MSJCPD and funds from the DOE to police the community as a policy is clearly backwards. Arguments about the fitness of MSJCPD LEO's aside, the fact is that such a department's jurisdiction should lie mainly on the MSJC campuses and secondarily in the surrounding community. The expense of vehicles to patrol the extended area, responding to calls from neighboring PD's, while helpful to the area, comes at the cost of diminished capacity for education by MSJC.

    It's obvious some MSJC LEO's are posting in these threads with extremely biased views. However, others are responsible for polarizing on the other extreme of the argument. This is not an all-or-nothing issue. MSJC is a part of the Menifee Community, and it should be a safe place for learning, like any school. The question we should answer is, if MSJCPD is going to operate outside of the campus, how will it operate? Are they effective making traffic stops, or are their limited resources better used in responding to calls that the RSO may have on lower priority? Are high-cost, high-performance vehicles necessary, or would bicycles, Segways, or golf carts be as effective?

    I have not had any personal interaction with any MSJCPD LEO. However, I've seen them in action. I've seen their vehicles. I've seen them along Antelope Rd. conducting searches on vehicles. Do they do a good for the community? Like any law enforcement does, yes. Do the citizens of Menifee appreciate the work they do? For the most part, yes. Is their presence and practice appropriate? It's questionable.

    For example, I've never witnessed an MSJCPD traffic stop in progress where the vehicle's operator was not sitting on the curb while the vehicle was being searched. Is this a prudent use of Law Enforcement? Some would argue the end justifies the means. The end is that they catch the bad guy. So is it worth hassling the good guys in order to justify the action? Would you, a law abiding citizen, be happy cuffed and sitting on the curb while the MSJC PD searches your vehicle? Is giving up a little bit of your liberty an acceptable cost for safety?

    When I needed to call 911 from my home because I heard violence coming from a neighbor's home, it was not the MSJCPD who responded to my call. Were they too busy conducting a traffic stop and roadside search to respond to a real issue of safety?

    Benjamin Franklin is known to have said: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    We live in a society that is constantly giving up liberties for safety. The last time I flew in an airplane, I was asked to empty my computer bag, remove my shoes and belt, remove my jacket, and present my ID for an additional inspection. As I looked around to all of the people half dressed, IDs in hand, lined up single file, fearing for saying the wrong thing, looking suspicious or making a false move, i thought to myself "the terrorists have won."

    Anonymous Cowards, are we willing to give up liberty for safety? Are we willing to subject ourselves to a government that is for its own interests? Our government of the people, by the people, for the people, is slipping away, not just in Washington, but even on our own streets as we allow funds earmarked for the intellectual training of our young and old to be used instead in the enforcement of the law of a government that is arguably representing less the desires of the people, and more the desires of those who are in power. In my mind, this is a tragic occurrence.

    Are we telling our representatives that we want to sacrifice our liberty (education) for safety? By diminishing the educational resources of MSJC by diverting funds into safety enforcement, this is what the leaders of the college district have done. Is this the action the taxpayers want? If not, please speak up. Stop the absurd one-sided arguments and get real about it. Let's lay to rest the Us vs. Them mentality and realize that this city belongs to ALL of us.

    The Menifee City Government may be in the best position to bring balance to the situation. I implore our elected leaders to do the right thing for the city.

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  16. They have police at elementary schools. Why not at a college campus. I sure feel more comfortable knowing they are patroling the area when I walk to my car at night after class. Since I pay tuition I feel that part of that money should go to capmus police. If people do not feel safe, they won't go.

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  17. The funny thing M@ is you complain about anonymous cowards yet you yourself are anonymous. You are the hypicritical crap that lends itself to the problems that are being spewed by these anti-police people like Anne. Funny thing is she backed the firing of the college leader whose main goal was to provide full-time faculty and withdraw support from temecula and banning. He was fired because he did not support her and other board members personal pet policies. She wants to take about wasting how about the half million it costs to "get rid" of the administrator plus the extra fees to find a replacement.

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  18. The funny thing M@ is you complain about anonymous cowards yet you yourself are anonymous. You are the hypicritical crap that lends itself to the problems that are being spewed by these anti-police people like Anne. Funny thing is she backed the firing of the college leader whose main goal was to provide full-time faculty and withdraw support from temecula and banning. He was fired because he did not support her and other board members personal pet policies. She wants to take about wasting how about the half million it costs to "get rid" of the administrator plus the extra fees to find a replacement.

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  19. Only three board members know why the former president was fired. Two of us still don't know and we did not vote for the dismissal. The 18 month buy out payment was inclusive in the contract upon termination.

    The question remains do taxpayers want state educational resources spent on public safety beyond campus owned properties? Those same three board members may agree.

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  20. I don't mind that they are policing the campus that is were they should be and if they had Jurisdiction of X amount of miles that is okay. But what is the X amount of miles. I saw them up on McCall and the 215 Fwy today and at Neport and Murrieta. Do they have enough fellow officers protecting our campus while these other patrol cars are all over town? My High Schooler wants to take some classes at the college but I want to know hat she will be safe.

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  21. Hey, Ann,

    Yes, I as a taxpayer want the money spent on the Campus Police.

    You don't know how many crimes they have keep from happening on and off campus by their simple presence.

    Like it or not, nowadays, schools of all types, colleges included are magnets for predators. I especially fear for college students who may be distracted by their studies, jobs and all and not paying close attention to their surroundings.

    My daughter attends MSJC and many times felt uncomfortable while waiting for rides and always knew she could walk over to the Campus Police Station or speed dial them and they would be there.

    Have you not seen recent reports about you women being raped on campuses? Wake up, we need the police for student and faculty safety. Better to pay now than settle a multimillion dollar lawsuit because you nixed the police on campus and someone got seriously raped or hurt.

    I hope all the Campus Police put in a word here! Your perspective should be heard, too.

    The money spent on the Campus Police is NOT being wasted it is being used to provide a much needed service for the students and the surrounding community.

    We as citizens should be thanking them and I personally will be calling the Campus Police to let them know how appreciated they are by our family.

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  22. She will be safe. The question is will she be able to get the classes she wants. Let's return to the mission of the College and the mission of the Sherrif. How many class sections should be sacraficed for the Charger and the Tahoe that patrol off campus?
    The adimistration knows, but their not involved in this debate, WHY?

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  23. Is your high schooler more safe with the officers on campus or off campus? Do you want the cops nearby or far away?

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  24. Should there be a law enforcement presence on the campus? Yes. Should the campus police leave the campus? Not to the extent they do. From most of the posts here it seems the issue is the campus police not paying attention to their primary responsibility, the campus.

    A contract with the Riverside Sheriff may not be a bad idea. They have all the resources available and the liability, should something happen,is shifted to the Sheriff's department.

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  25. The college impacts the community with all of the students that come into the community everyday. The college should pay for a police force to "police" the college and surrounding community.

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  26. Steve is sounding more like a Libertarian everyday with his comments on his blog.

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  27. LOL this is to funny. Not to hard to figure out who the MSJPD keystone cops are in the posts. Easy fix. Close the school and contract with the RSO until Menifee has a REAL police force and not a bunch of circus clowns chasing down students with pocket knives...ok that was a cheap shot. I am sure the knife was huge.

    Oh and to the blogger whose daughter is nervous waiting for a ride, why don't you be more responsible and be on time. She then would not have to wait for the MSJC cookie cops to speed over from where ever they are to keep her company.

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  28. 1 million for a police department is cheap and worth it. And having them patrol the surrounding area is part of there duty in my opinion. There are a lot of students walking home around the campus and patroling off campus helps to keep those students safe.

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  29. yes we need the police.

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  30. Suppose you had a million dollars to spend on student safty and security. How much would you allocate to patrol cars and officers for off campus policing?

    It seems to me you could rent 10 sherrifs and their patrol cars, station them on campus and let them respond to calls off campus and have the full back up of the RSO for $1M.

    Or how about offering them a sub station, free on campus? What the hell, let's give them hundreds of thousands of dollars to operate it too. Wouldn't that be cheaper and more effective.

    WE are talking about the safety and security of the students. Begin with the end in mind.

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  31. Dear Anonymous, at July 16, 2008 3:32 PM,

    Thanks for calling me a hypocrite. Obviously my humor was lost on you, as other blogs consistently label anyone posting as "anonymous" as "anonymous coward." Because I post using my own blogger account, I assure you I am not anonymous. My specific identity is hidden to people like you for my own protection. But every post I make is signed. I do not impersonate others to shout my own message louder. You, as an anonymous poster, are better equipped to do that.

    Since you didn't refute any of the statements I made, but instead go on to attack Ann Motte (rather incorrectly, I might add), I ask you specifically, what issue do you have for me to state that I am a hypocrite? Because if I was a hypocrite, I'd have made the statement I did, but my true feelings would be that I want even more funds to be diverted into the MSJC PD. And I assure you, sir, that is not the fact. It would be absurd for me to demonstrate such hypocrisy. Instead of coming up with a rational idea on your own, you resort to half-baked, inaccurate accusations. What good does it do anyone to continue to recycle the same inaccuracies? Please, be a part of the solution. Give some weight to your arguments by stating some facts. You might be able to persuade people like me if you could simply come up with something intelligent to say.

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  32. How come everyone who says something positive about the police is labeled as being a cop from the school or elsewhere...I think all you haters are probably criminals in real life

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  33. Alright folks, let's not resort to name calling on this blog.

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  34. HATERS huh? That is typical mentality of the local community? Why don't you attend some classes and learn to describe people with proper terms and not slang you picked up from the MSJC police.

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  35. First and foremost...the STUDENTS and their safety--not miles away on some wishful job of being a patrol officer. Contract with Sheriff and you will get exactly what you pay for. Professional officers who will keep to the task at hand and call in additional resources as needed. MJSC cops: if you wanted to be a patrol officer, you should have applied somewhere else!

    To parents of high school girl: you do have something to worry about. Apparently, the campus police are busy working their dream job of patrol officer, but couldn't get hired by a real police department. Sorry.

    And you can bank on it. The wonderfully positive posts are from MSJC police department staff.

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  36. Boy, I love this. I can't wait until you all start arguing about a Ploice Department. Some will say, "oh that's to much money." Others will say "we want more police." None of you know what you are talking about. It's all going to depend on what you think about "Police Officers." "Don't patrol my neighborhood, we don't want you here." "I never see any police around." If I lived near the campus I would be happy to have the officers patrol my neighborhood and I would stop them and let them know It. For some of you, check the California Penal Code,Section 830.1. The MSJC Police are police officers anywhere In the State of California. The next time you get stopped by one of them why don't you thank them for being there. I was a Police Officer for 35 years, I worked patrol, Career Criminals and Homicide. I've heard all the complaints. When something happens to you or your loved ones the people who complained the loudest are the ones who want to know where the police were when you needed them. I moved here after retirement 9 years ago to get away from all this whinnying and the crime. I guess It's the same anywhere you go. We have a new city to work with. Lets all pull together and get rid of the criminal element and make Menifee a safe city to live In. Support the Police and the Sheriffs Department, they are here to keep you and your family safe.

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  37. Well I guess the pro police people want more police, and the pro counseling people want more counselors. The pro child care people probably want more child care and the pro health care folks want health care clinics and why not a fire station on campus?

    What do you suppose the pro education people want? More classes? Wouldn't it be something if the Fall 08 enrollment is less than Fall 07? Or if the % enrollment increase is less than the % population growth?

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  38. These comments in suport of the police comes from Menifee Lakes residence, so they can reduce their cost for their security in their HOA. I agree with Anne it is time to trade in the Charger for teachers. Oh yeah the drugs and criminals come from your households not from outside this area. The rest of cheap folks get home security and mace.

    Honest Jon

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  39. Menifee Lakes has a security budget? I wonder why they don't hire their own police and patrol the Menifee Campus? They probably would not like to use their money for off property security, but using the college money for their own security off campus is perfectly OK, in fact those with a vested interest think it is a great idea.

    How many studebts will be turned away this Fall? Will the waiting lists be longer than last Fall? Will these student metrics be made public and discussed? No.

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  40. Just for the record, I don't live In Menifee Lakes area. I'm across 'town' In the area of Newport and La Ladera. Anywhere there's Police, that's a safer place for our wives and children to be. Get a grip...........

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  41. Hey Roy, I live off of Newport and La Ladera also. We all want more policing.

    But the question is if we should rob our schools and colleges to pay for the increased policing?

    My vote is to let MSJC use that money for education, and make the City of Menifee pay for the police.

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  42. Amen to that, Steve!

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  43. And I'll second that "Amen". We are all contributing money to the Community College District through property taxes and other means, but we aren't all reaping the benefits of the MSJC Police Department. I'm not opposed to a law enforcement presence on campus. But there has to be a better way to do it.

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  44. Hey, its only a million dollars. I mean its not like we have kids going to class in trailers and the lowest full time faculty ratio in the state. Oh, wait we do. Good job MSJC, way to spend the money.

    I know some pro police person will chime in about the shooting at tje college campus in Arizona. Thats fine and dandy but the MSJC cops are never on campus anyway. They are to busy trying to play real police and following the sheriffs department around.

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  45. I walked from the Library after the last City Council meeting all the way to the front of the College because I had parked on La Piedra not knowing if there was designated parking for the meeting not requiring a permit. I did not see policemen anywher around making sure I wasn't mugged. My husband is a cop and was working that night so he stayed on the phone with me until I was safely in my vehicle. Unfortunately for the neighborhood he patrols there are only about 6 or 7 of them any given night to cover three different cities (I would love for him to have more back-up). I married to a cop, so obviously I'm pro-law enforecemtn, but even to me it seems odd that Campus Police need all that equipment, cars, etc. to keep a campus safe (plz remember not a one was around when I was walking the campus in the dark).

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  46. P.S. You say "Libertarian" as though that's a bad thing . . .

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  47. Hey Letty,

    I was at the City Counsel Meeting too. Just for your information i saw four police officers on campus. They were there. If you felt that unsafe why didn't you call the police? What made you feel unsafe to begin with? the college hasn't had a violent crime on campus in ages. Is everything outside a 55 and over community unsafe for you?

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  48. A couple of quick comments. First to M@: If the campus police are HANDCUFFING citizens for no reason outside of just wanting to search their car, that is illegal. You cannot detain someone without prior knowledge that they commited a crime, suspicion of a crime being commited, or safety. The safety thing needs to be justifiable too.

    Having campus police that assist the SD with 911 calls and emergency response is great. But it is apparent that they need a lof more oversight.

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  49. Look what your $1 million a year is getting you!


    http://menifeelive.com/bb/showthread.php?tid=77

    ReplyDelete

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