California Proposition 94, 95, 96, 97 - Indian Gaming Compacts

california indian casinosPropositions 94, 95, 96, and 97 are voter initiatives that will allow four indian casinos in Southern California to build "super casinos" larger than those found on the Las Vegas strip. These will be on the Feb 5, 2008 ballot...

  • Prop 94 - affects Pechanga Casino

  • Prop 95 - affects Morongo Casino

  • Prop 96 - affects Sycuan Casino

  • Prop 97 - affects Agua Caliente Casino

Texts of these four referendums are essentially the same, the only differences being the number of additional slot machines they are allowed to add, and the amount of money they'll be paying to the State.

The Breakdown

What the Casinos get...

  • Casinos get to triple or nearly quadruple their number of slot machines (Pechanga goes from 2,000 to 7,500)


  • Casinos are no longer subject to the California Environmental Quality Act. Any expansion must be backed up by an environmental report that the Indian tribes can conduct themselves.


  • Casinos no longer have to have an impartial auditor count the slot machine revenues; they'll be able to audit them on their own.


  • Casinos will receive a "fail safe" guarantee that punishes the State for permitting non-tribal gambling operations. That is, if an organization other than an indian tribe receives a clearance to build a gambling establishment, the indian casino will be allowed to reduce its taxes to the State, or eliminate them altogether.

What the State gets...

  • Casinos will now pay taxes to the State General Fund. Previously, casino taxes were paid to two tribal funds (RSTF and SDF) that the State distributed to smaller tribes, and tribal administrative bodies. The General Fund is spent on all Californians.


  • Casinos will now pay more money than before, almost double than under the current compact agreements. But as mentioned above, the Indian tribes will now get to audit their own revenues for the purpose of deciding how much money goes to the State. Under the current arrangement, an impartial auditor is used. So, it's not exactly clear how much more money California will receive.

History

The provisions spelled out above were actually passed by the State Legislature, and signed into law by the Governor, in June 2007. It was supposed to go into effect January 1, 2008.

But other indian tribes within the State, particularly the Pala Tribe, as well as some racing tracks, the California Federation of Teachers, and the California Tax Reform Association, managed to gather enough signatures to put Props 94, 95, 96, and 97 on the ballot as a last ditch effort to override the Governor's signature.

The Pala Tribe is concerned that their casino will lose business if Pechanga is allowed to greatly expand its casino.

A "no" vote means the existing 1999 agreements will remain in effect. A "yes" vote allows these new provisions to go into effect.

Opinion

I'm not in favor of the new provisions. I'll be voting "no" on these propositions.

I do want indian tribes to pay into the State General Fund. But I don't like two particular details: the "fail safe" guarantee that punishes the State for allowing non-tribal gambling operations to exist, and allowing the indian tribes to audit their own revenues for purposes of determining their payment amounts to the State.

As a free society, anybody and any business should be free to operate a casino. If indian tribes can build a casino, then why can't I? The "fail safe" provision takes that freedom away, because it allows indian tribes to reduce or eliminate their payments to the State General Fund if a non-tribal gambling operation starts up.

And letting tribes audit their own money is a priviledge that I don't have, nor you. When we pay taxes, the State is free to audit our money as they please. We don't have the right kick the state out of our books, so why should the tribes?

And why should the tribes be excluded from the California Environmental Quality Act? As a business owner, I don't have that priviledge! No other business has that priviledge.

I don't have anything against indian casinos, or building "super casinos", but I want fairness and equality. I own a small business, and I don't like the fact that indian tribes can get special priviledges just because they're indians. That's state-sanctioned racism, against me and you.

My solution to all this is to dissolve indian reservations. Let indians be treated equally as any other Californian. If we applied the same business and tax laws to indian casinos, we'll recieve plenty of tax revenues. And they'll be free to expand without compacts.

For further reading...




59 Comments:

  1. Excellent points. I'm not in favor of only certain tribes getting expanded gaming. Of course, my particular complaint is with Pechanga (no on 94) Pechanga has violated their people's (25% OF THEM, anyway) and have shrunk their tribe, instead of bringing those who rightfully belong into the tribe.
    The special fund was designed to help ALL tribes in CA, and that's what they sold Californians on. Now, the Governor shows he doesn't care about them, nor does the legislature.
    The expanded gaming compacts ARE NOT good for CA.

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  2. nobody's fool anymoreDecember 15, 2007 9:43 PM

    Oh, you don't know the half of it.

    Pechanga is in the midst of an FBI investigation for massive embezzlement. Casino managers not only defrauded the casino itself, but the dealers as well by forcing them to pool their tips and then stealing those pooled tokes.

    One high ranking tribal member/table games manager has been quietly kicked out of the casino (although he'll still get his monthly stipend for life), while others in management have been taken out in handcuffs.

    CORRUPTION RUNS RAMPANT in Indian Gaming and not one single news organization will touch it. Makes you wonder why. Too much tax revenue at stake?

    Lets not fool anyone, the Governor of California HAS to be in the know re: the FBI investigations. Is he going to be part of the problem by turning a blind eye or part of the solution by demanding accountability? My guess? Follow the money. All sins are forgiven if the price is right. Meanwhile, over 6000 employees are affected, but who cares about them? They're simple plebians - afraid to speak out for fear of backlash - easy marks for greed mongers.

    Floor managers and Pits shaking down dealers for a share of their income. Trainers SELLING dealing jobs at $3,000 per head, or for sex -regardless of ability. For those who gained their jobs honestly and perform their duties with integrity, this goes beyond a slap in the face.

    This smacks of early Vegas.

    Upper management receiving kick backs for everything from casino software to the building of the new high limit rooms. Hiring known managers of, to say the least, dubious character and giving them free reign. How much was stolen? ... MILLIONS ???

    Wake up people. you are being hoodwinked. If the taxpayers of California give them the freedom to self audit, then they get what they deserve and those millionaire tribal members most asuredly will laugh all the way to the bank. Why would they care, so long as they get their $15,000+ a month?

    Oh and lets not forget San Manuel. Tribal members laundering money, selling drugs and guns to the Mexican drug cartels - all swept under the rug. The general public oblivious to it all. Now that's a sweet deal.

    ALL INDIAN CASINOS should be scrutinized. They don't need less oversight - they need more. Alot more.

    Meanwhile, I surely wish someone in the press had the courage to ask the Governor CALIFORNIANS VOTED FOR for an explanation.

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  3. I will oppose these propositions for the following reasons:
    I don't like the "fail safe" issue.
    I don't like the self audit issue.
    There is too much possibility for future corruption and with no guarantee of revenue for use by the general public of California.

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  4. Hmm, none of this information is in the TV commercials. I wonder why...

    I guess if someone asked the state how much it was worth to sell their soul to the devil we would find the answer in these propositions.

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  5. Maybe after we invaded their land, forced them to move, killed generations of their people, and brought them to the brink of extinction, they have the right to embezzle a little bit of money from us.

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  6. The Pechanga Chairman went to school in Colton, his father went to San Bernardino HS. The casino manager who was kicked out of the casino for theft isn't even Pechanga.. Nobody forced them to move and they don't deserve the same leeway for embezzlement that you would give to a Native American from the 1850's. Macarro's cousins went to Eisenhower in Rialto. Nobody stole their buffalo.

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  7. I want to be clear on my previous post. Pechanga Chairman Macarro was not involved in the theft ring at the casino. He is, however responsible for not controlling the corruption of the disenrollment committee and for not holding the council to uphold tribal law.

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  8. Let the Casinos get as bid as they
    want as long as California gets
    a fair share of the Pie.

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  9. Please vote NO! on Prop 94. Im a true BLOOD Pechanga Indian. Im in the illegal Moratorium. It has been over 10 years and will go tell 2015 when they vote on another 5, 10 or 15 year moratorium. The only people to get enrolled were familly members of the enrollment committe last Jan. Have a really good X-mas tribal member I know you will$$$$. Im going to try to make my house payment for my x-mas presnt. Stand up tribal members take back your tribe your not going to loose your golden egg. TRUE BLOOD FOR LIFE

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  10. Readers, when you hear 'moratorium' and pechanga, this is a violation of Pechanga's own Constitution. The Tribe voted to have a moratorium over a decade ago, because some realized that self reliance included bringing people into the tribe that belonged, but if they did that, then they would have to split their per capita checks. The Tribal Council declared the moratorium VALID. (the people have spoken) Flash forward about 8 years and the tribe votes to stop ALL DISENROLLMENTS (the people have spoken) The Tribe all of a sudden says the people can't vote on disenrollment. Let's see, they can vote to keep people OUT, but they can't vote to keep people IN! Yes, you can trust Pechanga to tell us how much profit they made.

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  11. Maybe after we invaded their land, forced them to move, killed generations of their people, and brought them to the brink of extinction, they have the right to embezzle a little bit of money from us.

    By Anonymous, at December 18, 2007 12:09 AM

    I didn't kill anyone and your living in a bumper sticker. There is no "we" or "they" here. Californians...period. If you grew up in reality and with any tribal friends you would know how the whole tribal scam works for a few families and not for the Tribe. Califorina Tribes Rock!!!

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  12. Dude... you can't say what mexico does with casinos, and you can't say what indian reservations do. Why is this even on the ballot? They have their own nations wtf.

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  13. So called indian Casinos on our highways are bleeding every day working class Californians dry. I realize that any vice is by coice, however we cannot ignore the fact that so called nickel machines at these casinos are creating addicts of people who otherwise eould never think of gambling. I know this because I have been addicted. In the past 7 years,I lost $app. $160.000 at a place called Morongo. I am in my late 60s and will never have the opportunity to earn that money back.

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  14. nobody's fool anymoreDecember 30, 2007 8:43 AM

    "Maybe after we invaded their land, forced them to move, killed generations of their people, and brought them to the brink of extinction, they have the right to embezzle a little bit of money from us."

    Curiously, people with this attitude probably have never lost their home or had their credit rating destroyed because someone STOLE the money they worked so hard to earn.

    The "little bit of money" comment is laughable.

    To Little Red:

    Who gets to decide how much is fair? The casinos. I don't know about you, but I can't come up with one California corporation that gets to self audit for the State Revenue Department. We already know corruption reigns, and you want to give them a legal way to do it?

    Dang.... may I embezzle from you, please?

    RE: The moratorium -

    I've always found it amazing that the Tribe has no judicial system. No courtrooms, no public attorneys, judges. Why? So you CAN'T sue them. Perfect solution. They rob their own people of their rights as tribal members and Californians still seem to believe they will be fair and honest with revenues?

    What a dream....soon to be a nightmare if this passes.

    RE: gambling addictions -

    Bus loads of senior citizens file in daily. Some delighted to win $100 and safely tucking it away. Others hopeful to make more and keep feeding the slots or drop boxes at the backjack tables. Seems most know what they are willing to lose, but no one knows how much they are willing to win and walk.

    Casinos dress up their place and bring in entertainment, all so you will pony up and leave broke.

    No casino gives a tinker's damn. Not Vegas, not Indian Gaming Tribes. It is a sad reality.

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  15. Bad Karma for the Indians-
    The Indian casinos have defeated their purpose. THey were established to take care of their people, since the WhiteMan took their land and dignity away. THe Indian tribes have become the very same greedy mongers that did them in. I have no sympathy for Indian tribes to expand their casinos in California. It is evil, evil, evil. THey will end up destroying themselves this time around with greed and money.

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  16. If the state of California is having such terrible budget problems, how is it our state legislatures voted to give themselves a $3,000 salary increase? The casinos can't even be called gambling establishments, in gambling establishments machines pay off once in awhile. When you put #300.00 into a penny machine and don't even get into a bonus game (The Spa Casino, downtown Palm Springs)it's pretty bad odds. You stand a better chance of winning the state lottery. And we are not of the generations that displaced the Indian nations. It would seem they are doing a pretty good job of displacing their own needy poor, in order to line the bigwigs pockets.

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  17. Stupidity rains supreme. If everyone would read the whole thing NOT just the quick bits on the top of the page they would learn several things.
    First, Right now Morongo has 2,000 slot machines. Here is the brake down on how we pay taxes. First 500 machines 4% of the revenue second 500 is 3% third 500 2% and the last 500 1%. Therefore, if you average that 4+3+2+1=10 divided by 4 = 2.5% of the total revenue under the new compact we will pay 25% across the board. BIG DIFFERENCE.
    Second, we realize in order to get something we have to give something. Case in point we are not part of the United States of America (look up Sovereign Nation) we do not have to enforce State or County laws example we did not garnish pay checks for Child support, back taxes, judgments, levies or liens etc. Guess what we have to in order to comply with the agreement. In fact, we have started several months ago as a good faith gesture. Less women going on wel fare everyone likes that. Try and serve legal papers on one of your employees in the past and see what happened, again we are allowing that. Our Employees are now responsible for them self’s no hiding on Indian lands.
    Third, we are building a new administration complex, and yes, a court is included. So do not give me that “so they can not be sued” stuff, WE CAN this was also part of what we gave up so we can have more.
    Name me another business that donated $1,000,000 to the scouts, replace a whole playground worth of equipment because one of the tribal members overheard a school official state they would not be able to let the elementary kids use the playground because they did not have the $30,000 to replace the old equipment. No other business treats the elders better then we do. There is no state funded social security here. In fact, we pay for our own fire department, library, Public Works excreta. For the dim witted this translate's into, not only do we not use State money we give money to the state, Now that is what I call a win win situation. Yes we are a business and like all business or doors are open to make money, do not be deceived we give a hell of a lot back to our people and surrounding communities.
    There is many things’ the tribes have, and will be giving up in order to reach a peaceful arraignment for all concerned. Everyone seems to be focusing on the self-auditing issue, we have been state audited for more then 12 years. Do you really think the state dos not have an idea how much should be paid based on past growth excreta.
    So please stop being one of the easily led astray sheep who only follows the heard, and read the whole thing and then decide for your self.
    There is a lot more but I feel most people get my point.

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  18. It is so easy to donate money for community welfare, when the money you are donating is just a very very small portion of what you have taken from the pockets of the elders, poor and working classes hard earned paychecks in your establishments. You take much more than you return.

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  19. Profits from Indian Gaming should be taxed at close to if not at 50%. The social degradation caused by gaming is a kin to drugs, alcohol and promiscuity (In order of degrading effect). A portion of the taxes should be used in public service campaigns exposing the dangers of gambling. If retirees want to through their savings away instead of passing this money on to a worthy cause, so be it, but how many of these gamers are losing money they couldn’t afford to lose? How much is going on the credit cards? The competition to maintain a certain “lifestyle” materialistic imaging will only further lower moral standards and behaviors attributed to their pursuit.

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  20. Smokestack BarnesJanuary 04, 2008 9:50 PM

    So many good points made here and I'm all for anyone making an honest dollar...keeps the difference between regular people and the government at the forefront of our minds, BUT there is one more point needing to be made...whats imbalanced when slots can triple or quadruple in numbers but revenues to the state, after the casino owners decide what they wish to send, only DOUBLE? Why aren't those dollars also tripling or quadrupling? All four propositions stink. For this reason and those stated here in other posts, I urge all Californians to vote NO ON PROPOSITIONS 94,5,96,& 97!

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  21. dont punish others because the Cal.senate cant keep within their budget. Id rather vote out Cal.senate members for over spending. Dont we all pay enough taxes???

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  22. I have some poor Indian friends who have not been given any help from their tribes, not full blooded enough. But they sure can throw up those multi million dollar hotels (with rich and fameous price tags on the rooms). Their machines are set so high in favor of the house, its pathetic. So why should they be permitted to install any more and make themselves and our legislative powers to be richer? As stated, budget crunches and the legislatives give themselves a $3,000 dollar salary increase ? Social security checks cost of living increase for the year was $20.00.

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  23. The Indian Casinos and the State Legislatures deserve each other. Both are greedy squanderers using the poor man's dollar to promote their own wealth and well being.

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  24. Save Clean LivingJanuary 05, 2008 7:55 PM

    This is a perfect example why California is going to Hell in a handbag. You've got no one looking at the ill effects that casino enviornements present to the populous.

    Instead we are being told that increased tax revenues will flow into the state. Is this what were allowing our state to sell out to?
    To allow this gambling filth to permeate further into our culture?

    A few posts earlier someone made mention about all the good things that the casinos have done. Get off it. It's the equivalent of Britney Spears making $750,000 per month and paying $500 in charitable contributions.

    Get a real job, one that doesn't exploit individuals weaknesses to fund your next big purchase.

    I'm voting NO.

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  25. What you are forgetting is we, Americans, immigrated here and took just about everything away from the Native Americans. They were here first and were forced into a society they never would've wanted to be in. I think it's messed up that you guys are being so selfish. Ya it'll raise taxes for everything else but casinos are the one thing that Natives can make money off of and buy back the land that is rightfully theirs. You have no right to be against these tribes because they were here thousands of years before any of us were born. Ya there are crooks in the tribes, but there are way more in the rest of the community. Just take a look at our president...

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  26. I used to work for one of these casinos. I couldn't take the unfair treatment by the management any more so I resigned. If these tribes failed to treat their employee fairly then what makes the state think they will be righteous when it comes to doing their own audit. I think Indians should pay tax just like everyone of us does, because they still being protected by the same government as we do, and we are the one that pay tax to make all these happen.
    And so what if the Indians were here first and that we took over their land. If we owe the Indians then we might as well owe the African and the Chinese who were brought here to be our slaves and our underpaid railroad workers. Get over the pass and talk about the present. Every single US resident who is sharing the same benefit should be paying the same tax rate.

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  27. i know iam going to be voting no on these props. its not fair to other tribs. and 4 the ppl who say who cares as long as cali gets its money...u r gready heartless ppl... Yes native americans have been treated badly in the past, but we cant take that back now, and we cant say were sorry cause whats done is done, but what we can do is try and make everything fair for everyone!

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  28. First we steal their land. Then we sign a treaty. Finally they find a way to get out from under abject poverty, so our government decides to take some more from them. It is their land. Our government has no business telling them what they can and can not do!

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  29. yes, we stole their land, but that was a long time ago. that really has nothing to do with these four propositions now. if put into effect, these may do more harm than good in the long run. but really, the point is, if they want my vote, they definitely need to make some changes. vote no!

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  30. This whole "stole their land" is BS. Indians themselves do not believe man can own the land or animals and in nature it's all free. They had no concept of the land even being “thiers”. Indians are also immigrants to America. Some came up from Mexico and some down from the Northern Alaska/Canada area. They just happen to step on the land hear in California before others did. So it's now suppose to be their land? Indians only benefit from how things are now. You think Indians want to go back to what it was before the "white man" came and took “everything away”? Give me a break. This is a group of people who had no written language, no medical or technical contributions to the world and fought to the death with other tribes, enforced slavery of their own. Now they have medical hospitals, schools, business and entertainment all within a minutes drive from them. No one is stopping them from going back to the way they use to live. If the “white man” imposed such horrific conditions then why do they all endorse it all with using all this modern items. Why don’t they go back to living in teepees and riding horses? They have a huge benefit of being within the USA's borders. They also have all the military protection without having to pay a single tax dollar for it. This whole crap how I owe them anything is BS. They own me nothing and I owe them nothing. These propositions are just yet another way for Indians to exploit their sovereign nation and if you don't agree then must some how be racist. What the f--- ever. No on Prop 94, 95, 96 and 97.

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  31. It’s true
    I am in the west now
    where they have
    water sunshine
    in the south
    the place where palm
    trees immigrated
    like white people
    taking over the landscape expensive to
    maintain
    they will belong
    here in California
    where
    decedents of the original
    empire
    battle the Pechanga
    The Aqua Caliente
    The Morongo
    The Sycurcan
    only now they use
    words
    they use technology
    rich white men land owners
    buy airwaves like weapons
    to call the indigenous people
    greedy
    they call them crooked
    they accuse them of lacking integrity
    say they are making sweetheart deals
    in back rooms
    Pechanga’s own people speak out against them
    on blogs like
    open wounds on the
    face of their once proud nation
    they say Pechanga’s tribal government
    violates the rights of it’s’ people
    violates its elders, the earth, its sick and its children

    I struggle to see the old redwoods
    through the forest of palm trees
    makes me want to stay inside a dark hotel room
    I can’t even enjoy the winter sun
    the only thing that still belongs to everyone
    unless I could go out to the desert
    dig the Truth out
    of the Earth
    find it
    the answer
    buried under dirt
    in the bones of someone
    who everyone has forgotten

    by becca cooper imthegirlwho@gmail.com

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  32. "My solution to all this is to dissolve indian reservations. Let indians be treated equally as any other Californian. If we applied the same business and tax laws to indian casinos, we'll recieve plenty of tax revenues. And they'll be free to expand without compacts."

    I'm in favor. This is by all means the just thing to do.

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  33. (Quoted from above) This whole "stole their land" is BS. Indians themselves do not believe man can own the land or animals and in nature it's all free. They had no concept of the land even being “thiers”.

    (Response) Excellent point. The problem is, Europeans moved in and put up fences and 'no trespassing' signs.

    (Quoted from above) My solution to all this is to dissolve indian reservations.

    (Response) Are you serious? To paraphrase: We stole their land a long time ago. They should get over it. Let's not learn from our mistake; let's steal the land they have left today, obliterate the tribes, then their will be no one left to complain.

    Exactly what do the Native Americans owe Americans and Anglo-European transplants in taxes and why?

    The best way to develop an educated opinion is to ask tribe members what they want. Sounds like the propositions are detrimental to the average Native American tribe member. That would be enough to convince me to vote no.

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  34. Some of you sound like children saying, " why do they get to do that?, that's not fair!"
    Let's get back to life, liberty, and the persuit. California should have no right to tax a sovereign nation or make any rules for them. Anything that reduces regulation will help the free market decide how big their casino will be.

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  35. I am voting on NO for 94, 95, 96, & 97 because I am sick of the madness. I don’t know what is the TRUTH, but I do know that is absurd for someone to get a check for 20K to 30Ka month for doing nothing. The tribes that don’t have the “Investors” are going to be left in the dust because of this deal. These props. are going to open the door for legal gambling, which I don’t mind, because at least it will be fair and regulated. What some of these greedy (Pechanga) tribes have done is an abomination. Ask yourself; will 100K, per adult, be enough to satisfy the tribes? Are we giving anything to the African Americans we desecrated or the Chinese Americans we humiliated? ENOUGH!! I DO NOT WANT US TO GIVE THE TRIBES ANY MORE EXORBIANT, UNEARNED WEALTH!!!!!!!!! Life is not free, GET OVER IT!!!! GET A JOB!!!!!!! I, and many of my friends and collogues will not eat, drink, or let alone gamble in your establishment anymore until you report your earnings, and give your FAIR share to the state and Federal Government in the way of taxes. You have, for many years, received free health care, free education, and many other free things that I don’t have time to list. By the way, Morongo, clean up Banning!!!!! It looks like a S**T hole, and your kinds go to that awful school district. And you claim to help! Oh wait, I forgot, you only care about the revenues from the Cabazon Outlets.

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  36. Wow I am amazed by the stupidity I am reading. I read all the no's and all I get is jealousy. People talk crap about how Native Americans that own casinos need to share with the less fortunate one's, but what other race is expected to that? "That's like winning mega loto and having a long lost cousin 10 times removed show up at your door the next day with a hand out!" Hell Bill gates can share a little with me just because we both white but I know thats not going to happen!I bet you still own a PC operating windows. How much does Wal-mart give to Target or the Community? How much did they give California's general fund last year? They did 250 Billion in revenue?

    Indian gaming is nothing compared to corporate America, but who cares about them? We just don't want to see any minority making as much or heaven forbids more $$$$$$ than us.

    You wanna talk about someone sitting on their but doing nothing and making a whole lot of money, How about that Paris Hilton. If I was her grand daddy I would cut her off.

    anyways!

    Now how about those who are trying to save all us Californians from the Largest Gambling Expansion in history. I hate to break it to you but the ones sponsoring the referendum have UNLIMITED GAMING!thats right U.N.L.I.M.I.T.E.D!!!!!!! FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THAT WORD.

    adjective
    not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent.

    The other savior is the H.E.R.E union. Come on!They don't care about the employees they just want to line their pockets because they know that Indian gaming is becoming one of the largest employers of Californians. If their sole purpose is to protect employees, Why did they sue CWA Union and stop them from organizing Indian Casinos? They sued another Union because they want a monopoly on Indian Gaming. Here's a Link

    http://workinglife.typepad.com/daily_blog/2005/06/behind_the_scen.html

    For you people who say no on Prop 94,95,96,97 I say your a fool for believing the lies. I for one thank the Indians because they are the only ones giving back to California. Who is really going to suffer from these deals? I'll tell you,us with higher taxes and my kids with less money for education. My city with no money for infrastructure or police.

    A NO Vote only Hurts me. When your state taxes increase next year ask your self why you turned down 100 million plus to california?

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  37. Actually, the implication of Indian Reparations was exactly how the California State Government spun the original proposition, along with the added twist of unifying all California tribes into becoming self-sustaining and removing the Indian population from the welfare rolls. Something for the "Left" something for the "Right" something for the Indians. Everybody wins!

    Personally, I don't understand why any American Indian would want to emulate "Familia" but I supported the original bill on the grounds that they should be able to do whatever they please with their (original) Reservation land.

    While I don't object to tribes purcasing property to preserve the land and the culture, I do not, however find it fitting for tribes to purchase more land for yet more casinos. If I wished to live near a giant "cathouse" I would move to Nevada.

    The fact that tribal leaders are corrupt, greedy, and willing to extort and fraud their own people only proves how morally bankrupt and spiritually devoid they have become.

    Pity.

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  38. I will vote no on these propositions because I don't like communities depending on people waisting their money and acting irresponsably, to mention only a few. I like communities who prosper based on people working hard or having skills and work experience in their careers. It's sad to know a lot of people depend on gambling jobs. What valuable skill to society would you learn from working there? We send our kids to school because we want them to learn skills and have moral values right? So justifying support for this proposition based on getting more money for our government and community in exchange for the expansion of a sinful industry (where peoples weaknesses are exploited) is just pure hypocrisy. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against casinos. I Like to go to Vegas and enjoy the enterntainment industry that they foster. But I don't want them at home.

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  39. nobody's fool anymoreJanuary 13, 2008 9:24 PM

    RE:

    "The fact that tribal leaders are corrupt, greedy, and willing to extort and fraud their own people only proves how morally bankrupt and spiritually devoid they have become.

    Pity."

    By Anonymous, at January 12, 2008 3:18 PM

    With all the parlor tricks performed in this thread, I appreciate the fact you caught on. I'd have no problem with any compact, even one that would allowed a soverign nation to determine its own tax base (i.e. choosing which slots to use) provided the compact was signed in good faith and be honored as such.

    The fact that at least two Indian casinos in California are ripe with corruption should be the first fact considered in this affair.

    It's not whining. It's being a responsible voter.

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  40. i'm voting no. for one, there is already too much questionable behavior and the tribes should be investing into bettering their quality of life. to many greedy fingers in the coin bag you ask me. and really, even if California get 100 mil extra a year from this, 60 mil is going to illegal aliens, and the other 40mil is going to be lost in a system that's already negligent and or broken.

    native americans have the right to entrepreneurship, as do all people. but i vote against until confidence can be insured by both the state and the tribes.

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  41. I play at nearby Harrahs and basically drive past Pechanga to get there & have done so since I "patronized" Pechanga 3 years ago.

    I do this because Harrahs has a much more warm, home type feeling & the employees are definitely more human.

    Slot machines are slot machines no matter where you go.

    I also will vote no on all 4 props because of the above mentioned reasons but also because I feel that Pechanga really does'nt seem to care about the guests complaints very much....so, its also a personal thing from past experience.

    I also agree that it appears Pechanga has shunned some of their tribal members from receiving revenues out of greed & Mark Maccaro should be held responsible.

    Being greedy with tight slots is one issue... but dishonesty with "family" is enough for me to stay away.

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  42. You say that you don't have anything against indian casino's but you also say that Indian's should not get special treatment since they are indians. Non-indians have been given special treatment ever since California became a state in the 1800's. Indian's had to live in squalor on pieces of land not fit to raise any decent crops or raise livestock but now that gaming is here people don't want them to get too big for their Indian britches. I grew up on an Indian reservation in Porterville, CA and I know first hand what it is like to have nothing, but I also know that when gaming came in our reservation abidded by the rules and helped our people with jobs, housing, education and medical. I don't believe that four large gaming tribes should reap any more benefits that any other gaming tribe and it should be equal across the board. Tribes should work with the state to appoint an independent auditor so no one can say that the Indians cheated the state out of gaming money. The gaming revenues should be earmarked for many different areas such as education, medical or the general fund where it could be used to help with the state's deficite. We as taxpayer's in CA can help our state with this money from gaming and put it to good use and not make it as a pointed, jab at Indian people. There are many of us that practice traditional values and to see people print things like, "Indians should not get special treatment", please re-read your California history of treatment of Native American's here in California and say to yourself, "Would I want my parents and children to be treated like this?"

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  43. I fully agree that there is no need to add more gambling to our lives, but this land is not ours and frankly I am surprised we got the 1999 compact passed. Since it did and we do have extra tax dollars, why not continue to assess those who also benefit from this government?
    A part of me wants to vote for the 4 props. and yet a huge part of me says its just not positive for the majority.
    From what I read from the Official Voter Information guide, The MOA requires tribes to have an independent accountant audit casino operations each year and provide a copy to state regulators.
    Since the money would be going to the general fund, sorry for the ignorance but, who decides on what gets financed from and how much is spent from the general fund?
    I am concerned about how that new revenue would be spent.

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  44. To answer the above commenter on how the taxes will be spent, there's going to be forms of revenue, one goes to the General Fund, while the other goes to the RSTF (the SDF will be eliminated).

    The General Fund is basically the State's main bank account. Much of the spending will be handled automatically thanks to several laws that mandate and specify budgeting for various expenditures. The rest of the General Fund is spent by our legislators, they vote on how to spend the money.

    The RSTF is a fund managed by the State, but used only for tribes. The state disperses this money mainly to the poorer tribes, to pay for basic utilities, roads, healthcare, etc.

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  45. One thing I did notice is that there is no increase in the amount of money going into the RSTF to help small tribes, even though big bucks are going to CA and 4 tribes, nor is there any provision for an increase to this fund.

    There is only an increase in the amount of money given to CA, and if these 4 tribes don't pay the originaly agreed upon amount to the small tribes then CA must pay it. What if they just stop paying?

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  46. I would support voting "no" as well. Though more on the level of competition. It does not seem fair to give exclusive contracts like these compacts to just four tribes. It would stifle the free market.

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  47. GLM painting CO.January 29, 2008 9:10 PM

    SELF-Reliant well I would be to if I could get a check for 15 to 30 thousand a month? But I wouldnt have any PRIDE if I made my living this way. I have seen to many hard working famlies lose everything. thanks govenor I SAY NO>>>>

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  48. Why is it that in recent years the Indians gaming & revenue been the focus of all us NON-Indians?? The Indians are FINALLY making money, finally obtaining justice for all that our predecessors took from them. The Indian history is sad in the hands of all that came to this country when the Indians lived a peaceful, healthy life. But others came in a raped their women and children, stole from them, treated them worse than animals were treated and then gave them lands which they could do nothing with. Nothing would grow. The general public didn't give a crap about these Indians until recently when they are making money. And now it seems they want a piece of the pie. Everyone is sticking their hand in the pot, none of these hands belong, only Indian hands!!! The only thing I support is that all indian tribes share their wealth amongst eachother. I don't think Non-Indians deserve any of the benefits because they have worked hard to get their head above water and finally live with some dignity.
    I'm a college educated woman, self supported, hard working, born in California, non Indian. Sure I think California's budget needs help, but why should the Indians pay for our Governor's mistakes!!?? We should think of our responsibility to the Indians. Quit being such gold diggers! Lets get out of this mess without Indian money since they deserve to keep all the money they've made.

    I know many will attack my comments but I speak with a moral obligation to the past history of these Indians. They were treated unfairly for centuries and they don't owe us a dime!!!! People today don't know anything about morals, its a sad comment on our society and country for that matter!

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  49. Hey All,

    Thank you for a very good thread. There was a lot of information here from both sides and it is nice to hear very little name calling, and a majority of intelligent comments.

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  50. So we GIVE the Indians casino rights so that they can have more money and TAKE more taxes from them so that the state can have more money. Does this seem contradictory from the outset? Logic would say that something is very wrong here. Reading this blog has been very eye opening. Thanks everyone.

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  51. "fail safe" issues are a problem
    no outside auditors are a problem
    the governors overestimtation of the taxes from the Indians Casinos are a problem
    The big four Indian Casinos benefit, not the smaller tribes and that is a problem

    these propositions were already signed into law by the governor without consent of the people and that is a problem

    My vote is no on Proposition 94-97

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  52. 1. "fail safe" issues are a problem
    2. no outside auditors are a problem
    3. the governors overestimtation of the taxes from the Indians Casinos are a problem
    4. The big four Indian Casinos benefit, not the smaller tribes and that is a problem

    5. these propositions were already signed into law by the governor without consent of the people and that is a problem

    Conclusion:
    My vote is no on Proposition 94-97

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  53. if you're not capable of controlling yourself in a casino then you probably shouldn't be voting on february 5th. 2.5% compared to 25% is a HUGE difference. These people spendign money at indian casino would just as likely go spend it in Las Vegas Casinos, so why not reap some of the benefits here in California where we dont' have enough tax dollars coming in because our economy has crashed, not because we can't control spending, but because liek the rest of america the everday indivudal has stopped spending so tehre's no more sales tax, much less income tax. Everyone says cut spending, so our governor tries and we have petitions to save the 48 state parks and to get fundign for education back up. If we cut state funding on education then our education systems go down, if we cut state spendign on state parks then every enviromentalist gets mad, if we cut spending on raods then everyone gets mad, if we cut spending on insurance again everyone gets mad, there's not way to cut spending any further, government funded things are already in bad enough shape with as little money as they get. We need more government revenue and if that means indian casinos becoming HUGE, then let them become huge and let the tax rates go up the 1000% the government has asked it to go up, from an overall 2.5% to 25%. huge differnece, even if what's brought in is audited at half of what really is coming in, the state still gets sooo much more money

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  54. Thank you for posting your points as to why you're voting no. Part of your bias is definitely racially motivated. Which is why your NO vote has just made mine a YES! So, thanks!

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  55. You claim all these people would go to Vegas, but that's necessarily true.

    I know of someone who doesn't gamble but takes his middle-aged wife, and senior citizens to the bus station where they get on a free bus to the nearest Indian casino and waste the day gambling.

    Shameful! I wish there was a free bus that picked them up and took them to the local swimming pool!!!

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  56. That's really streaching it a bit far when you call what goes on there at Pechanga "gambling". Have you ever heard of anyone actually winnning anything there of any substance? Next time your there ask yourself where are all the bells and whisles, the yelling and excitement, which takes place in a real casino when gamblers actually win occasionally.

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  57. Whats sad about the whole indian thing is California gives them large areas of land, they build casino's and make more money then we could ever think about making. i am in the retail housing business and have had my share of tribal members try to purchase homes. what i have found by my experiences is although they average 10.000 20.000 dollars a month and a tribe member they still have no clue how to conform to society, or be responsible adults. "example" Mother and Son walk into my office one day in 2006 driving a 75 k suv. gold and diamond rings on every finger. combined income over $ 50.000 fifty thousand a month!!! together on there joint application for credit for the house i find they cant even rent to own a tv. credit scores in the low 400's charge off's, lates, repo's ect. i think there should have been way more stringent reg's put on the indians by there own kind...abuse the priveledge and your cut off would be #1 on my list..what we did was take worthless people and made them worse before they even had a chance to find out what a struggle life really is.

    take it all away and make them go out and make a normal living just like the rest of us, maybe they will learn some values.

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  58. In response to the above comment, I'll add that Indians are not forced to live on reservations. They're free to live just like every other American, in the same communities, and work the same jobs as we do. So, there's no excuse for Indians to claim hardship.

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  59. How come none of the opposition explains how casinos elevate the economy in surrounding cities and counties? Seriously, a simple code of ethics should be incorporated in the delivery of every "opinion" instead of pin-headed biases. Consequently, more readers become prone to ignoring these topics when facts are left out. On a closing note to the individual who posted this work, try writing in a formal manner. I for one, simply cannot take "advice" from such an uneducated person.

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